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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 03:30:00 PM » |
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It wans't my theory that we are a two man team. It was Benitez's theory and non-liverpool fans theory. Everyone says the team cant play without Gerrard or Torres and havent you just contradicted yourself, by saying we would of done better in the league with Gerrard and Torres though we played better without them? 
& Tevez is hardly a 'key player' for United. He's a key player on the subs bench. So what you really mean is this is what you've heard in the media so it must be true right? I mean why bother watching a team & making your own mind up when there is the when there's the knowledge & footballing genius of guys like Paul Merson & Tim Sherwood (favourite quote: 'Liverpool only have two or three quality players whereas at Utd you have Ronaldo Rooney & Tevez.'... righto Tim) to do the thinking for you? As for it being Rafa's theory, please provide an example of Rafa saying that we can't play without Gerrard or Torres. All he has said is that we would have been likely to do even better than we have already this season if we had our two best players fit for the whole campaign, I have to say I'm dumbfounded that you don't appear able to see the simple logic in this theory. Are you really trying to tell me that having your key men available doesn't make any difference? If that's the case then why do clubs spend millions of pounds on these players? Is every club that has a star or two a one or two man team? Cos I'll tell you what every one of them will miss those key players if they're out. As promised, here are those figures I said I would post last night. It was actually Rooney & Ronaldo rather than Tevez & Ronaldo, my mistake, but I will correct you anyway on Tevez not being a key player in that campaign. In 07/08 Tevez was Utd's second top scorer with 19 goals & also contributed 7 assists, think they'd have won the league without that contribution? Why bother checking your facts before offering an unfounded opinion though hey? Anyway I digress, onto the article: Again, I ask people to go check Manchester United?s results without Ronaldo and Rooney. And again, I ask people to see how many games Liverpool have won without Torres and Gerrard this season.
If you can?t check, let me do it for you: United lost five league games last season. Rooney missed four of them, Ronaldo missed three, and they did not play together in any of those defeats. Of these opponents, only Chelsea were a team in the top eight, so it?s not skewed by difficult games.
In the 12 league matches Rooney did not start, United?s accrued a 69-point average when extrapolated over 38 games, as opposed to the 87 they actually racked up. In the seven games Ronaldo did not start, the average would have made an even worse total: 65 points. Or the tally that saw Everton finish 5th.
Shockingly, in the four games in which neither started ?? against Manchester City, Bolton, Sunderland and Spurs (again, no giants, but admittedly one derby) ?? they dropped half of the available points: meaning an average of 57 if extrapolated over 38 games. Or equivalent to finishing 8th, like Portsmouth.
(Also, of the three league games Ronaldo missed at the start of this season, United dropped five points, which is the form of a mid-table side.)
Yes, United have other good players all over the pitch, but do these facts not suggest that they are overly reliant on their best two attacking players?
While United have coped well in the last few games without Rooney, without either him and/or Ronaldo on a regular basis, the form book suggests that they are not a title-winning side. Indeed, far from it.
(Of course, if United did not have these players on a very regular basis, or indeed at all, they?d try to buy similar replacements; just as Liverpool obviously would in the case of Torres and Gerrard.)
Now look at Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard this season.
Gerrard has failed to start four league games ?? Villa, United, Fulham and Portsmouth. Two of those are clearly very tough fixtures, against top-three sides. Two were at home, two away. And yet Liverpool?s record is won two, drawn two. Over 38 league games, that is worth an impressive 76 points.
Due to injury, Torres has failed to start no fewer than 15 league games. These resulted in ten wins, four draws and just one defeat. Over a 38 game season, that ratio would earn an incredible 86 points. That is a title-winning tally; last year United got 87, but needed only 86.
Perhaps due to Torres playing at least half a dozen games when lacking sharpness, Liverpool have actually fared better without him; with him starting, the Reds have won five and drawn five, which is 76 points in terms of form over 38 games. (Though he did win the weekend?s game from the bench.)
It gets even more amazing. In each of the two league games Liverpool started without both Torres and Gerrard, the Reds won: against United and Pompey. It?s only two games, of course, but it?s a 100% record. Or 114 points over the course of a season! (Silly, I know, when based on such a small sample, but a 100% record is a 100% record.)
Yes, these are statistics ? but then league tables are formed from similar statistics relating to win, lose or draw, which are the most important kind. And yes, United?s figures are based on last season (when they won the title) and Liverpool?s this season (as they challenge for it). Even so, it?s valid.
But even I was shocked at how remarkably disparate the win/lose/draw statistics were. I?m no genius; I just sat down and bothered to check some team sheets and calculate some figures, rather than just make ignorant assumptions like the McPundits.
So why are Liverpool the team perceived to rely on just two players? Why does someone like Tim Sherwood say that United don?t rely on their key men and Liverpool do?
Why isn?t the truth ?? that United cannot seem to cope very well without Ronaldo, and certainly not well at all without both him and Rooney ?? more well known?
Why isn?t Rafa praised for getting so many great results without his key men this season, rather than just constantly criticised?
Why isn?t Ferguson accused of being lucky or relying on Rooney and Ronaldo to get him out of trouble?
I?ll leave you (and anyone in the media who reads this) to draw your own conclusions. But based on these figures, if I were Alex Ferguson and United lost Rooney and Ronaldo to serious injury, I?d be very worried.Just to add, since that article was written either Gerrard or Torres has been absent for a further 7 league games, of which we've won 4, drawn 2 & lost 1, scoring 17 goals, form which over the course of the season would earn us 76 points. But hey, these are only hard facts, if everyone says we can't play without Gerrard or Torres they must be right & the facts must be wrong 
You'd contradicted yourself there (Y)
And I don't really need guys like Paul Ince etc doing the thinking for me when i've been trained by UEFA (A) coaches who know a lot more about the game than they do.
I'm not saying that people don't miss their key players, but at the end of the day Rafa shouldn't be blaming the injuries of Steven Gerrard & Fernando Torres for Liverpool's unsuccesful season. They were unsuccesful this season because they sat back and defended in games they should of been attacking!!
Correct, Tevez was a key player last season, but who's talking about last season? I know for a fact I'm not. I'm talking about the present season, where Tevez is a bench warmer.
& For the record, I've always been one that's said Liverpool play better without Gerrard & Torres. So don't take a hissy fit out on another fan. |
